Pittsburgh Pirates: Top 10 Prospects Chat With John Perrotto

Pittsburgh Pirates: Chat





Baseball America's Top 10 Prospects lists are based on projections of a player's long-term worth after discussions with scouting and player-development personnel. All players who haven't exceeded the major league rookie standards of 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched (without regard to service time) are eligible. Ages are as of April 1, 2009.

John Perrotto: Hi everyone. Looking forward to talking Pirates' prospects. Though they continue to lose at the major leagues, the Pirates do have a much deeper pool of prospects than just two years ago when Neal Huntington took over as general manager. The system is much improved and the Pirates should be able to get another high-impact player drafting No. 2 next year. Anyhow, let's chat.

    Frank (Denver): Did either of the two Indians make your Top 30? Which has the most upside?

John Perrotto: No, neither one did. Though Rinku Singh, the left-hander, won the Million Dollar arm, it was the right-hander Dinesh Patel, who had a 1.42 ERA in the Gulf Coast League. Granted, the sample size was very small but it is amazing the progress they have made considering they had never played baseball until the fall of 2008.

    Ben (Leland Grove): What led to the Pirates' inability to sign Miguel Sano?

John Perrotto: Ultimately, it came down to the Pirates not following the wishes of the Sano family, as expressed through agent Rob Plummer. They did not want teams to contact the family directly and the Pirates did that, apparently more than once.

    Ryan (STL): Did Dan Moskos come close to making this list?

John Perrotto: No. Even though he had an encouraging season at Altoona, his strikeout rate was extremely low and his stuff is just not what it was in college. It was a step forward but he has more steps to take before he becomes a top 10 guy, especially in a system that has become deeper.

    Eric (Pittsburgh): What can you tell us about Brooks Pounders' mechanics, and where did he land overall?

John Perrotto: I did not get a chance to see Pounders pitch but the reports are that he has pretty clean mechanics and the athletic ability to repeat his delivery. He is pretty advanced from a "pitchability" standpoint by all accounts.

    Jean-Paul (Springfield, IL): When he was first drafted, BA's scouting report said that Wes Freeman had possible 5-tool potential. What shortcomings does he need to work on, and did he make the Top 30?

John Perrotto: Freeman had a very disappointing year in the Gulf Coast League, not totally unexpected for a young guy. He needs to work on his approach at the plate as much as anyone. Like a lot of young hitters, he tends to get anxious and swing at the pitcher's pitch rather than waiting for something he can handle. He is so talented and so young that the Pirates are far from giving up on him. He did not make the top 30 but that's primarily a function of the Pirates improving the depth of their farm system.

    Ryan (WA): How close did Victor Black come to the top 10, and what kept him off?

John Perrotto: Very close. Basically, the only thing that kept him off was the fact that the Pirates' quantity of prospects had increased quite a bit. In many years, he would have been a shoo-in to be in the top 10, probably even the top five.

    Ben (Leland Grove): In your 2013 lineup card, Lincoln was the only prospect from the list to make the starting rotation. Does this mean the others are considered more of a safe bet to remain, or that they have a higher ceiling than the other arms on the list, or something else?

John Perrotto: Basically, the Pirates are a little short on starting pitching prospects at the upper levels beyond Lincoln and Alderson. The reports on Alderson all season, and particularly in August after he was traded to the Pirates, is that his stuff and command were down over previous seasons. As we all know, predicting pitchers' future performance is very tricky and that projected 2013 rotation could look completely different by the time 2013 actually rolls around.

    Wes (Chatham): Could we get your evaluation of Nelson Pereira? Thanks!

John Perrotto: OK stuff, decent idea of what he's doing on the mound. However, he struggled with the jump from the GCL to the New York-Penn League and that raises some questions about his ultimate ceiling.

    Keith W (Jersey): it looks like Zack Von Rosenberg could be a steal in the draft this year. what is his upside? thanks!!

John Perrotto: His upside is very high. I'd say a No. 2 starter and that might be conservative. He has the talent and the pitching savvy to be very very good.

    cliff jordan (chicago, il): Is Rudy Owens a better bet as a lefty reliever next year with the big club? As a starter he looks like a clone of what we already have, and the Bucs do need a middle - inning lefty. Thanks.

John Perrotto: The Pirates look at him as a starter and I don't see anyway they would rush him to the major leagues to be a reliever next season when he hasn't pitched above Class A yet. They would rather fill that hole with a veteran and let the younger pitchers develop. There is nothing wrong with that because, frankly, it's highly doubtful they are going to be contenders next season.

    Diane (Pittsburgh PA): Are you reasonably certain that Tabata has put his maturity issues behind him since being traded?

John Perrotto: I really do believe that he has grown up a lot. The Pirates insist he hasn't caused any trouble since coming over from the Yankees as the whole kidnapping thing in spring training was his gold-digging wife's doing. I've had the opportunity to talk with him a couple of times and he seems to truly understand that he made some mistakes with the Yankees and is determined to prove that he's a good gauy.

    cliff jordan (chicago, il): Who will be the Garrett Jones of 2010?

John Perrotto: How about Eric Kratz, who was re-signed as a six-year free agent? He is a catcher with some pop and the pitchers at Indianapolis loved the way he handled them last season.

    Virginia (PA): Is first base Pedro Alvarez' only recourse if he can't handle third?

John Perrotto: That or DH and the Pirates, of course, are in the wrong league for that to be an option.

    Dale Berra's Stash (Pittsburgh): On a scale of 1 (low) to 10 (high), give your level of concern regarding: Tabata's future power, Grossman's K rate, Hernandez's attitude problems, Morris's injury-prone nature

John Perrotto: Tabata-5 Grossman-8 Hernandez-4 Morris-9 1/2

    Kyle Reese (The Future): Is Starling Marte the best OF in the system, including Tabata, but just needs more of a track record?

John Perrotto: I think you can certainly make that case because Marte is a true potential five-tool talent. What I'm curious to see with both is how much power they eventually develop. I think that's going to be the determining factor.

    Adrian Thaws (Knowle West): Will any of these players make it thru 2010 as Pirate farmhands - Andrew Walker, Mike Felix, Duke Welker?

John Perrotto: Perhaps Walker but I think Felix and Welker are going to need to have good spring trainings to make it on one of the opening-day rosters.

    Pat (Boston): what could u tell me about Colton Cain.... I've heard good things about him and where was he ranked?

John Perrotto: He is in the top 30. He is a lefty with a live arm and good athletics ability.

    Beth Gibbons (Bristol): Where would Sano have ranked if Plummer wasn't a total dirtbag?

John Perrotto: Probably No. 2 right behind Pedro Alvarez and ahead of Jose Tabata.

    cliff jordan (chicago, il): Why is Brad Lincoln not the next Ian Snell? Both are short righthanders with fairly straight fastballs, as far as I can see. Thanks.

John Perrotto: Frankly, different mentalities. Lincoln doesn't have a persecution complex. Also, Lincoln is more solidly built than Snell, though I never bought into the fact that Snell's size was ever a factor against him.

    Y. Zober (Busy running the City): With Lincoln's age (25) and the general injury-prone nature of pitching, is it worth it to delay his clock if he is one of the 5 best pitchers out of ST?

John Perrotto: Personally, I'd take him north if he were deserving. However, the Pirates will likely delay his clock and I can't totally blame them when they can have him for an extra year at a time when they might finally be competitive again.

    David (Liberty Township): In hearing Neal Huntington and Kyle Stark talk about Josh Harrison (press), he would appear to be part of the future of the Pirates. Word is that many feel he will hit in the Bigs for many years, but where does his glove fit? I have read the Pirates Brass believe he will be a very good Big League 2B. Where did Harrison fit in the Top 30 as surely he is in the Top 15 with all the Organization head honcho support... Thanks

John Perrotto: He is in the top 30 and I'll leave at that so you'll have something to look forward to when the Prospects Handbook becomes available in January. I'm not quite as sold on Harrison being an everyday player as the Pirates are. Now, I have not had the chance to actually see him play but scouts I trust think he could make a really good super utility guy in the majors. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    Jim H (Little Pine Creek): Last year at this time, LH pitching and C were the org's two biggest weaknesses and now they may be strengths. What are the weaknesses now and do you think Huntington will aggressively fix them?

John Perrotto: They really don't have any can't miss corner infielders beyond Pedro Alvarez and first base is very thin. I really think they need to add more power hitters, which is easier to do through the draft than through trades.

    BooyahCanada (New York): What position will d'Arnaud settle at? Any hope for Shelby Ford - was it injuries in 2009 or what?

John Perrotto: I really believe d'Arnaud has the athleticism to play on either side of the second-base bag and it will all come down to need when he's ready. I'm not convinced that either Ronny Cedeno or Aki Iwamura are long-term answers, so it could be that the door opens at shortstop or second base for d'Arnaud. I will say this, I think he will be in the major leagues sooner rather than later.

    Robbie T (Burgh): Is a position change in N. Walker's future? Is catcher still a possibility?

John Perrotto: I think the time has come for Walker to become a super utility guy. I don't think he is going to become the star player the Pirates hoped for when they drafted him but he can still be a good big-league player. He's a terrific athlete who could more than capably play the four-corner positions and he has said he would be willing to move back behind the plate. I also believe he is talented enough that he could become passable in center field, too. You take a switch-hitter with pop who can play six positions and you've got yourself a pretty valuable National League player.

    MaineBucs (Belfast): Who is your pick(s) to show the most improvement this year on the farm?

John Perrotto: I think Starling Marte might really go off now that he's had a half-season's taste of the minors leagues in the U.S. Someone else to watch is catcher Henry Cabrera, who made his U.S. debut in the Gulf Coast League this year. He will likely start next season at West Virginia and a lot of scouts think he has a chance to be a potential starting major-league catcher. His father, Alex, is a star player in Japan.

    3up3down (Only Bucs): Which HS arm drafted in 2009 has the most pure upside?

John Perrotto: I'd say Cain becuase he's a hard-throwing lefty. However, Von Rosenberg is much more polished at this stage and he has good stuff, too. Thus, he is the better bet to reach stardom.

    cliff jordan (chicago, il): How's Jarek Cunningham coming along? Does he still project as a thirdbaseman?

John Perrotto: He is expected to be 100 percent when spring training begins. Whether he can stay at shortstop is really going to depend on if he can still take the wear and tear of playing the position after major knee surgery. Certaintly, I don't think you can totally commit to making him a third baseman until you're sure he can't be a big-league shortstop.

    wanaplay (Allegheny River houseboat): As a beat writer, how do you determine the rankings - mostly from talking with scouts and the front office? How many of the Top 10 did you see in 2009 personally?

John Perrotto: A mixture of opinions — front office, minor-league field staff, scouts from both inside and outside the organization. It's a constant process throughout the season then I sit down, make a rough draft of the top 30, revise about it a billion times then send it off to the BA gurus Jim Callis and John Manuel for their opinions then revise it some more. As far as seeing players, I really prided myself in seeing all the farm clubs, except the GCL, every year during my 21 years working at the Beaver County Times. Unfortunately becuase of my change in jobs last season, I did not have time to see all the clubs, which was disappointing. I am hopeful to get back to touring the minors again. It's one of the best parts of the job.

    Rhys Liam (Wooster): With newspapers failing and Seven Springs needing a cash infusion, are you concerned that Nutting may be diverting MLB money to other enterprises?

John Perrotto: I have no hard and fast evidence of it but it certainly could be possible. Since none of his family's three companies are publicly traded, they are not required to be open with their finances.

    Woobie (The Great Frontier): How concerned are the Pirates about Alderson's velo drop? And are you still rocking that sweet Members Only jacket from your old website?

John Perrotto: Dude, you're killing me. It wasn't a Members Only jacket. Even though I'm one of the worst-dressed people in the world, I've gotten past Members Only. On a serious note, the Pirates insist that they are not worried about Alderson and it was a matter of fatigue. I guess we won't know a definitive answer until spring training.

    Omar (Lakewood): Who's on first for High A Bradenton in 2010 between Morgan, Anderson, and A. Baker? Who goes to DH and who needs a new org?

John Perrotto: Great question. I'll venture a guess here and say Baker plays first and Morgan is the DH for the Bradenton Manatees (another guess there on the nickname) and Anderson will go back to West Virginia and play first base after having a bad second half there.

    thegreatchris (Where greatness is made): Most underrated prospect? Most overrated? How long does Pedro stick at 3B?

John Perrotto: Underrated would be Marte just because he's still somewhat of unknown around baseball. Overrated is a tough one but I'd have to say Shelby Ford, who was couldn't hit .200 at Triple-A after being in the top 10 last year. If Alvarez is committed to staying in tip-top shape, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, he should be able to stay at third base for at least a few years. He is just a big, strong guy, though, and he's eventually going to have to move over to first as he gets older.

    Leonard Shelby (Room 9 and 20 at the motel): Brighter future - Lincoln or Alderson? Donnie Veal's AFL - aberration or sign of things to come?

John Perrotto: Alderson because he got to Class AA at just a young age. I think we're starting to see Donnie Veal turns things around. I'll say this, he works hard at trying to become a better pitcher and he's an extremely bright guy. I would not bet against him.

    Andy Dufresne (Mexico): Odds of Moskos becoming above-average relief pitcher? Better power down the line - Tabata or Hernandez Where would Tony Sanchez be taken if the draft was done today?

John Perrotto: Moskos would strictly be a left-on-left guy at this point if he were in the major leagues and the Pirates prefer lefty relievers who can also get right-handed hitters out. Tabata easily over Hernandez in the power department. Sanchez would go No. 4 again because the Pirates are thrilled to him, especially in the fact of all the criticism they took for selecting him that high.

    Mr. White (In Alabama): Is Uviedo a starter or reliever long-term?

John Perrotto: I think a reliever. I'm just not sure he has the stamina or a third effective pitch to start in the majors.

    Jeff Sollars (Chambersburg, Pa): Where can we read you next season? jeffrey.a.sollars@smithbarney.com Love your work.

John Perrotto: Well, certainly in the pages of Baseball America. Beyond that, I'm in a bit of flux at the moment, and waiting to see how various possibilities turn out. I appreciate the kind words and interest, that's for sure.

    Fred (Ohio): What does the Pirates organization think of 1B Michaelangel Trinidad? Is he a real prospect or someone who put up good numbers at an advanced age in a weak league.

John Perrotto: Someone who put up good numbers at an advanced agein a weak league.

    Jeff Sollars (Chambersburg, Pa): How high are the Pirates on Robbie Grossman? He strikes out an awful lot. Thanks.

John Perrotto: The strikeouts are a big concern. If he can cut those down, he's got a chance to be an everyday big-leaguer becuase he has good speed, is pretty good defensivley and could develop some power as he gets older.

    Fred (Ohio): Hi: Do the Pirates believe that Chris Aure can be more than simply an organizational pitcher?

John Perrotto: They like his arm a lot but are also mindful that he is very raw and inexperienced coming from Alaska, where the baseball season is obviously very short. He's going to take a while to fully develop.

    Fred (Ohio): Thoughts on lhp Eliecer Navarro? Do you think he will make WV this year?

John Perrotto: I think there's definitely will go there. How he looks in spring training will enter into that decision.

    Fred (Ohio): Were the Pirates pleased with Rogelios Noris's performence in the GCL? He really seemed to come on as the season went along.

John Perrotto: Yes. He is another guy you can put in that sleeper-ready-to-breakout category.

    Fred (Ohio): How concerning was Matt Hague's lack of power?

John Perrotto: Very much so since he is a corner infielder.

    Steve (Chicago): Where do scouts rate Marte's power potential? With plus-plus speed, can he be a 20-40 player at his peak?

John Perrotto: Plus power and, yes, 20-40 is realistic for this kid. He's definitely someone you can dream on.

    Fred (Ohio): Because of his advanced age (for high-A), could the Pirates start Diego Moreno at AA to begin next year?

John Perrotto: That is a very good possibility.

    Andy (Sarver, PA): What impressed you about Gorkeys Hernandez? He seemed overmatched most of the year in AA. He has no power and won't hit for average in the upper levels.

John Perrotto: His speed and defense. He can really fly and cover a lot of ground. I think next year is a tell-tale year for him. At some point, he's going to have to hit and 2010 is the year it has to happen or he risks losing a lot of luster of his star.

    Hal (New Jersey): Did Quinton Miller make the top 30? Does he remain a starter as he moves through the system?

John Perrotto: Yes and yes.

    Jack (Pitt): Bryan Morris had an up and mostly down year. Does the fact that he was added to the 40 man roster mean the Pirates are still high on him?

John Perrotto: Yes. They still believe in his raw ability but they'd like to see him finally beat the injury bug and also show some more maturity.

    Brent (Pitt): Trent Stevenson had a brief, but solid debut. Is he expected to add more velocity as he fills out, and what is his potential?

John Perrotto: He kind of got lost with all the other high school pitchers in the draft because he signed early but he has the potential to be a major-league starter. I'm not necessarily a big believer in pitchers adding velocity as they get bigger. It seems more often than not, it doesn't happen.

    DH (Pittsburgh): It seems as though almost nobody believes that Tabata is only 21. If he's already in his mid 20's that would certainly alter both his power projection and the window of his peak years. A good glove and high OBP are still valuable but the Pirates could really use more pop in the OF. Do you have any feel for what the Pirates believe? What do you think?

John Perrotto: The Pirates are adamant in their belief that he is 21 and just as adamant that he will develop power. I would like to see the power manifest itself a little more because, like you said, they really need this guy to pop some homers since he projects as a corner outfielder with McCutchen entrenched in center.

    DH (Pittsburgh): Chase d'Arnaud looks like he may be a fine major league shortstop with a very nice OBP. However, if Jarek Cunningham makes a full recovery, does he have a higher ceiling? And is he still possibly the SS of the future?

John Perrotto: I think Cunningham has a higher ceiling because he's younger but I think d'Arnaud can be a good big-league shortstop.

    Dwayne (Greensburg, PA): Who are the best players that Neil Huntington acquired at the trade deadline that didn't make the top 10 list and why?

John Perrotto: I tell you one guy I really like that the Pirates got at the deadline who is not in the top 10 but made the top 30 is Brett Lorin, a right-hander from Seattle. He pitched really well at West Virginia and a lot of scouts think he has a chance to be a major-league starter. Keep an eye on him this year as he might make the two-level jump to Altoona.

    Rob (Alaska): I hear the Bucs are going to try Andy LaRoche at 2B. Have you heard anything about how it's going and how do you see this playing out?

John Perrotto: He worked out at second during instructional league but that idea has now been tabled because of the acquisition of Aki Iwamura to play second.

    Steve (Chicago): I love the idea of Lincoln, Ohlendorf, and Morton at the top of the rotation. 3 guys with power FB instead of the soft tossing we've seen at the top of the Pirates' rotation recently. Definitely something to be excited about...Which brings me to Duke and Maholm. Seems like the Bucs could have sold "high" on Duke this past deadline. Do you see these 2 being on the team come August 2010? And is there a real market for either of them? Thanks.

John Perrotto: I would not be shocked if Duke is traded this winter. You heard it here first.

    Steve (Chicago): No faith in Garrett Jones? Seems a bit strange that Clement was given the nod at 1B in the projected 2013 lineup over Jones. Is it more that you have faith in Clement realizing his talent, no faith in Jones sustaining his major league success last season, or no faith in Pirate management to pay Jones long-term?

John Perrotto: Jones will be 33 in 2013, that was the determining factor. Actually, if I could have put player to be named later at the position, I would have. I think it will be someone not in the organization at the present.

    Brian (Wisconsin): Bryan Morris wasworking his way back from Tommy John surgery this year. His 2009 numbers were poor and as a result fell out of your top 10. Do you give him another year to come back from Tommy John or is he pretty much a lost cause?

John Perrotto: I give him another year. He's still in the top 30 and he's still a prospect.

    Nora (PA): If Bryce Harper should somehow fall past the Nats, what are the odds of the Bucs snagging him?

John Perrotto: I think they have to. After all this talk about being willing to spend the money to get the best talent, they have to take Harper at No. 2 if he's there. If they don't, they will come across as disingenuous and enrage what fan base is left.

    Wilbur Miller (Silver Spring, MD): At what point do the Pirates face the inevitable and move Dan Moskos back to the bullpen? If he's going to be in AAA in 2010, that would seem like the time.

John Perrotto: I think soon and your plan for 2010 sounds like a good one.

    Steven (Morgantown, WV): With the projected 2013 lineup, some young players currently on the roster are glaringly left out of the Pirates plans. At what point do you see Doumit, Laroche, and Garrett 'the legend' Jones being actively shopped?

John Perrotto: I think Doumit will have been traded or have left as a free agent by then. I certainly don't see LaRoche holding off Pedro Alvarez until 2013 and Jones will be 33.

    Erik (Pittsburgh): John, How close were Locke and Moskos to landing in your Top Ten? Where they are now in prospect status and what do their big league futures project to be? Thanks JP, love the tweets!

John Perrotto: Locke yes, Moskos no. I try to have fun with the tweet, although many people would say I'm a twit.

    Joel (Washington, DC): I like the reports on D'Arnaud, but I have to say the Bucs have had a run of college shortstops who have hit the wall at upper levels —- Lillibridge and Friday come to mind. Will D'Arnaud be any different?

John Perrotto: It's always a possibility and you make a good point. I was impressed with how he came on strong in the AFL since he had not played above Class A.

    paul (seattle): is matt hague in your top 30? how was his season? will he go to double-A?

John Perrotto: He did not develop into the power hitter I thought he might become. I wouldn't totally write him off but he's not one of the 30 best prospects at this time.

    Ben (Chicago): John, thnaks for chatting. It's great to see former BA staffer Chris Kline recognized for signing Tony Sanchez. Did he sign any other picks last year? Would BA do a follow-up with him on his scouting experience? Finally, I know Jeff Clement lost his prospect status, but if that were not the case would his bat carry him into the top ten as a 1B?

John Perrotto: Clement would have probably been in the lower half of the top 10 if eligible. I don't make the assignments here but I'll pass along the story idea about Chris Kline, who is making quite a name for himself early in his scouting career.

    Rob (Alaska): I realize none of the three are prospects any more, but what do you think about the Pirates' strategy to acquire former top prospects like LaRoche, Milledge and Clement? Does this approach seem likely to bear fruit?

John Perrotto: I think they'll hit on some and miss on others. I know that's a wishy-washy answer but it's a 50-50 proposition.

    Steve (owltown): where is brian friday on your list?

John Perrotto: In the top 30. If I told you more, I'd ruin the surprise you'll have when you get the Prospects Handbook. Shameless plug there.

    Chris (Pittsburgh): Why does Quincey Latimore get no love in the system? His numbers this year were pretty solid for a young guy in full-season ball. He is only 7 months older than Robbie Grossman.

John Perrotto: He is definitely a prospect. Until this year, he would have been a surefire top 30 guy after the season he had at West Virginia. I think Lattimore is someone to definitely keep an eye on.

    Chris (Pittsburgh): Last year's late round steal was Quinton Miller, who the Bucs bought away from North Carolina. What are the reviews on Miller after his first full season?

John Perrotto: Live arm but raw. Needs to learn the nuances of pitching and to throw his changeup more consistently for strikes.

    Erik (Pittsburgh): Lighting Round: Jeff Locke or Dan Moskos? By how much?

John Perrotto: Locke by a lot.

    Brian (Fredericksburg, VA): Who do you see as the best comparison to Pedro Alvarez? A poor mans Albert Pujols? A lefty hitting Aramis Ramirez?

John Perrotto: A lefty-hitting Aramis Ramirez works, though he may pop a few more homers and hit for a little less average.

    Jake (Texas): what is the early verdict on Zach Dodson we hear about Cain and Von Rosenberg but hear little about Dodson. How much upside does he have?

John Perrotto: He kind of gets lost in all the high school pitchers the Pirates signed but he certainly is a guy the Pirates are high on.

    andy (sarver): Marc Baca was impressive at state college, is he considered a prospect?

John Perrotto: Not really a prospect at this point as a low-round draft pick. However, with pitchers, you never know.

    Dave (PA): What can you tell me about a couple of young pitchers the Pirates acquired, Nathan Adcock and Hunter Strickland? Will they be in the Top 30?

John Perrotto: Strickland was throwing 94 mph at the end of the season and it looks like the Pirates might have something in him. Adcock is a decent prospect. One is in the top 30 and one isnt'. The Prospect Handbook will reveal the answer.

    Brian (Chicago): What type of prospect is Tom Boleska? I noticed that he played in the World Baseball Cup with Great Britain.

John Perrotto: He's a guy to keep an eye on. He's done a really good job, albeit pretty much unnoticed, in the minors.

    Tim Williams (Virginia): Alderson was #4 in the SF system last year. Gorkys was #4 in the Atlanta system last year. Is the drop for each player a sign that they've fallen off a bit in the eyes of scouts, or is it a testament to the talent the Pirates have added to the system the last two years?

John Perrotto: A combination of both.

John Perrotto: Well, that will wrap it up. Thanks for all the great questions. Sorry I couldn't get to all of them but I tried to make a big dent. Take care and Hapy Thanksgiving.