Comments on: Santana Return Not Enough For Twins http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/ Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:43:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: arcee555 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8601 arcee555 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:35:44 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8601 Some people get it, others dont. the Twins had NO choice. Waiting to July wouldnt work cuz Santana Still had the no trade clause, rental was out. The mets trade is equal to the Mets offer. Lester is a #3-4 type MLB pitcher, so is Humber & Mulvey, Guerra is better than the Redsox offered in secondary group. Ellsbury in place of Lester would be better, but he is grossly overhyped. A Solid player with low risk to reach his ceiling, however Gomez' ceiling is higher, albeit greater risk to reach even Ellsbury level. The yanks offer was the best, because Hughes might be among the best AL pitchers in 2-3 yrs and Cabrera is a "safe" if not spectacular CF, but that deal was no longer available. Some people get it, others dont. the Twins had NO choice. Waiting to July wouldnt work cuz Santana Still had the no trade clause, rental was out. The mets trade is equal to the Mets offer. Lester is a #3-4 type MLB pitcher, so is Humber & Mulvey, Guerra is better than the Redsox offered in secondary group. Ellsbury in place of Lester would be better, but he is grossly overhyped. A Solid player with low risk to reach his ceiling, however Gomez’ ceiling is higher, albeit greater risk to reach even Ellsbury level. The yanks offer was the best, because Hughes might be among the best AL pitchers in 2-3 yrs and Cabrera is a “safe” if not spectacular CF, but that deal was no longer available.

]]> By: Jon-Erik http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8437 Jon-Erik Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:48:52 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8437 One difference with Haren is that he is not in position to demand a huge contract. If Santana does not sign with the Mets, there is NO WAY Minnesota will even get this much from anyone else. Who else would be willing to give up the prospects for someone who wouldn't sign with what the Mets will be offering? Considering the Twins would get nothing but a draft pick if they kept him, they probably got the best deal they could at this point, and better hope the Mets do sign him. One difference with Haren is that he is not in position to demand a huge contract. If Santana does not sign with the Mets, there is NO WAY Minnesota will even get this much from anyone else. Who else would be willing to give up the prospects for someone who wouldn’t sign with what the Mets will be offering? Considering the Twins would get nothing but a draft pick if they kept him, they probably got the best deal they could at this point, and better hope the Mets do sign him.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8422 Jeff Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:45:41 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8422 If you'd have told me at the end of the previous season that the Twins would get a more valuable player from trading Matt Garza than Santana, I'd have thought you to be a total idiot. Unless he was or is actually hurt, it doesn't make sense to me to trade him in this manner. Challenge him to pitch lights-out in his walk year, and if he responds like most would expect him to, they would get 4 months of Santana and at least this much from someone wanting to rent him for the pennant drive. At least it's possible. Money talks, and in this case it was just too much. If you’d have told me at the end of the previous season that the Twins would get a more valuable player from trading Matt Garza than Santana, I’d have thought you to be a total idiot.
Unless he was or is actually hurt, it doesn’t make sense to me to trade him in this manner. Challenge him to pitch lights-out in his walk year, and if he responds like most would expect him to, they would get 4 months of Santana and at least this much from someone wanting to rent him for the pennant drive. At least it’s possible.
Money talks, and in this case it was just too much.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8419 Jeff Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:30:36 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8419 Santana only wanted to be traded east (no trade clause, remember). So it was Yanks, Sox or Mets. Twins had no leverage - Santana held all of the cards. Mets Rotation today Santana 28 Martinez 36 Perez 26 Maine 26 Pelfrey 23/Hernandez 42* El duque will more likely be a spot starter and work out of the bullpen. The rotation actually seems kind of young..... This is the danger of giving a no trade clause to a player. Now i can not fault the twins for offering him $20 million per year (which he turned down) for being cheap, but they cleraly overplayed their hand in this case Santana only wanted to be traded east (no trade clause, remember).

So it was Yanks, Sox or Mets.

Twins had no leverage – Santana held all of the cards.

Mets Rotation today

Santana 28
Martinez 36
Perez 26
Maine 26
Pelfrey 23/Hernandez 42*

El duque will more likely be a spot starter and work out of the bullpen.

The rotation actually seems kind of young…..

This is the danger of giving a no trade clause to a player. Now i can not fault the twins for offering him $20 million per year (which he turned down) for being cheap, but they cleraly overplayed their hand in this case

]]> By: Mike http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8416 Mike Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:40:30 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8416 My heart goes out to Ron Gardenhire. Who are your starting five? The Mets should have included Fernando Martinez and Mike Pelfry. Perhaps the Twins would have included Joe Mauer, Joe Nathan, and Justin Morneau?! My heart goes out to Ron Gardenhire. Who are your starting five? The Mets should have included Fernando Martinez and Mike Pelfry. Perhaps the Twins would have included Joe Mauer, Joe Nathan, and Justin Morneau?!

]]> By: Jason http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8414 Jason Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:59:07 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8414 As a Mets fan I know how little the Mets gave up. I can't say it's nothing, because there is some talent there, but I would hardly consider it in the same league as what the Sox and Yanks offered. I always try to keep an open mind when discussing the Mets prospects, because I know there is a Nwe York media hype. That's why I read Baseball America, a national publication with no bias. But this deal is definately lopsided, I'm just glad the Mets got the big half. As a Mets fan I know how little the Mets gave up. I can’t say it’s nothing, because there is some talent there, but I would hardly consider it in the same league as what the Sox and Yanks offered. I always try to keep an open mind when discussing the Mets prospects, because I know there is a Nwe York media hype. That’s why I read Baseball America, a national publication with no bias. But this deal is definately lopsided, I’m just glad the Mets got the big half.

]]> By: Tom http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8413 Tom Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:32:39 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8413 This is the best the Twins could do? My mouth is slightly ajar in mild astonishment. What a decidedly underwhelming package of "prospects". If I were a Twins fan I'd be more than a little perturbed. This is the best the Twins could do? My mouth is slightly ajar in mild astonishment. What a decidedly underwhelming package of “prospects”. If I were a Twins fan I’d be more than a little perturbed.

]]> By: Pete, Cincy, OH http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8411 Pete, Cincy, OH Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:02:43 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8411 If indeed, the contract demands priced most teams out of the mix, thus lessening what the Twins could get, they should have just kept Santana. If Liriano returns to form, they could have had an amazing one-two punch at the top of their rotation. If indeed, the contract demands priced most teams out of the mix, thus lessening what the Twins could get, they should have just kept Santana.

If Liriano returns to form, they could have had an amazing one-two punch at the top of their rotation.

]]> By: Randy http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8406 Randy Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:24:06 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8406 Mets might have punched their ticket directly to the NLCS, if they're able to lock up their Amazin Ace!! However, on the Twins hand, I think they made the best out of a worst case scenerio! We know pretty much what to expect from Humber and Gomez. But the sweetner in this deal will be the turnout of Guerra and Mulvey a couple years down the road. Maybe this deal wont look so bad, on the Twins part, when these guys have reached their ceiling. Mets might have punched their ticket directly to the NLCS, if they’re able to lock up their Amazin Ace!!
However, on the Twins hand, I think they made the best out of a worst case scenerio! We know pretty much what to expect from Humber and Gomez. But the sweetner in this deal will be the turnout of Guerra and Mulvey a couple years down the road. Maybe this deal wont look so bad, on the Twins part, when these guys have reached their ceiling.

]]> By: Josh K http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8405 Josh K Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:17:14 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8405 This is a great trade for Jon Niese, correct? Although, Twins fans can't be very happy with their gains, the Mets did just trade away three of their top ptiching prospects, not leaving much left. Their starting rotation is quite old at the Major League level so this looks good for Pelfrey, Niese, etc. This is a great trade for Jon Niese, correct? Although, Twins fans can’t be very happy with their gains, the Mets did just trade away three of their top ptiching prospects, not leaving much left. Their starting rotation is quite old at the Major League level so this looks good for Pelfrey, Niese, etc.

]]> By: Eric SanInocencio http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8391 Eric SanInocencio Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:38:10 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8391 Jim, I couldn't agree with you more. Smith overplayed his hand when he banked on a power struggle between the Yanks and Red Sox. Once he stalled out after the Winter Meetings, the teams seemed to lose the affinity for Santana, and that's when they pulled back their offers for the lefty ace. It today's game, it seems that the best laid plans don't work out. Striking while the iron is hot has become the mantra, with teams making deals quickly and decisively. By waiting, Smith confused and bored out his market. Huge mistake. The sad part about this is the Minnesota fan. They now watch another face of the franchise leave, while their 2.8 billion dollar owner claims small market status. Not only does Carl Pohlad not spend the MLB revenue sharing money on his team, but he asked the people of Minnesota to pay for their new stadium. Than he fails to sign the best pitcher on the planet. It's a shame. Jim,

I couldn’t agree with you more. Smith overplayed his hand when he banked on a power struggle between the Yanks and Red Sox.

Once he stalled out after the Winter Meetings, the teams seemed to lose the affinity for Santana, and that’s when they pulled back their offers for the lefty ace.

It today’s game, it seems that the best laid plans don’t work out. Striking while the iron is hot has become the mantra, with teams making deals quickly and decisively.

By waiting, Smith confused and bored out his market. Huge mistake.

The sad part about this is the Minnesota fan. They now watch another face of the franchise leave, while their 2.8 billion dollar owner claims small market status.

Not only does Carl Pohlad not spend the MLB revenue sharing money on his team, but he asked the people of Minnesota to pay for their new stadium. Than he fails to sign the best pitcher on the planet. It’s a shame.

]]> By: Michael M. http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8390 Michael M. Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:31:47 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8390 How could the Twins get more? Only a handful of teams were in the chase. It seems the Red Sox only got in because the Yankees were in it. If the Sox really wanted Santana, they would have put up a winning bid. The Yankees did not want to give up more young pitching, since Cashman is in love with that cheap talent. Plus, everyone knew it will take 20 mill a year for one pitcher, and so only a few teams would even think about doing that. The Twins were doomed when the contract demands were out in the open. They have very little leverage to ask for more and teams knew this. The only option they had is hold on until the trade deadline, but that is a huge gamble. At that point, the Twins would be the ones against a wall...trade or hold out for the possible two draft picks? I think they are gambling still with the Mets offer, but they have seen that no one else is pushing for Santana and his price tag in players and money. How could the Twins get more? Only a handful of teams were in the chase. It seems the Red Sox only got in because the Yankees were in it. If the Sox really wanted Santana, they would have put up a winning bid. The Yankees did not want to give up more young pitching, since Cashman is in love with that cheap talent. Plus, everyone knew it will take 20 mill a year for one pitcher, and so only a few teams would even think about doing that. The Twins were doomed when the contract demands were out in the open. They have very little leverage to ask for more and teams knew this. The only option they had is hold on until the trade deadline, but that is a huge gamble. At that point, the Twins would be the ones against a wall…trade or hold out for the possible two draft picks? I think they are gambling still with the Mets offer, but they have seen that no one else is pushing for Santana and his price tag in players and money.

]]> By: Jim http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8389 Jim Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:16:54 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8389 I agree that the Twins didn't get hardly enough to trade Santana. I am not sure if what they accepted shocks me more than the Angels NOT jumping into this mix. The Angels have so many prospects that they don't have MLB spots to place them and getting Santana would have put them in the AL drivers seat. Don't the Twins need infielders? How many did they get in this deal???? The Twins produce pitching prospects in their sleep, so I just don't understand how they felt this was the best they could do, but as a Red Sox fan I am glad to see him out of the American League!! I agree that the Twins didn’t get hardly enough to trade Santana. I am not sure if what they accepted shocks me more than the Angels NOT jumping into this mix. The Angels have so many prospects that they don’t have MLB spots to place them and getting Santana would have put them in the AL drivers seat. Don’t the Twins need infielders? How many did they get in this deal???? The Twins produce pitching prospects in their sleep, so I just don’t understand how they felt this was the best they could do, but as a Red Sox fan I am glad to see him out of the American League!!

]]> By: Darren Maybee http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8388 Darren Maybee Wed, 30 Jan 2008 05:13:28 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8388 I agree with the article. Those prospects are not close to the value of Santana. On John Manuel's top 50 prospect list from the 2008 handbook they rank on #33 Guerra and #36 Gomez. I agree with the article. Those prospects are not close to the value of Santana. On John Manuel’s top 50 prospect list from the 2008 handbook they rank on #33 Guerra and #36 Gomez.

]]> By: mike hedman http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8387 mike hedman Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:23:39 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8387 any other Twins fans scratching their heads at this one?!? we don't need more pitchers!!! any other Twins fans scratching their heads at this one?!? we don’t need more pitchers!!!

]]> By: mike hedman http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2008/01/santana-return-not-enough-for-twins/comment-page-1/#comment-8386 mike hedman Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:22:16 +0000 http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=707#comment-8386 what are the Twins doing here?!? they DO NOT need any pitching prospects--they're LOADED already, especially with mid-rotation guys. this just doesn't make sense...the Twins need OFFENSE! Gomez seems pretty mediocre at this stage...lifelong TWINS fan says BOO to this deal!!! what are the Twins doing here?!? they DO NOT need any pitching prospects–they’re LOADED already, especially with mid-rotation guys. this just doesn’t make sense…the Twins need OFFENSE! Gomez seems pretty mediocre at this stage…lifelong TWINS fan says BOO to this deal!!!

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